ysobel: (Default)
Part ichi is here

So, okay. Where was i?

Ah right:

I have a new not-a-job (!!!!]

teal deer: online cat herder )

My mom thinks I'm crazy for doing this -- she worries that it's Too Much -- and I can't explain to her either why it isn't (and she has no idea how vicious my brainweasels can get or how deep my self-loathing can go) or why it matters to me that I'm doing something. Luckily, she's not the boss of me, so I don't have to.

#

Language updates:

Tomorrow's Duolingo will make a 750-day streak.

I don't know how. O.o

I'm mostly doing low key Spanish stuff, figuring that a little each day will keep that part of my brain happy even though I'm not devoting Lots Of Learning to it.

I'm also still doing WaniKani for learning Japanese kanji (though since the characters are borrowed from Chinese, there's some overlap, and I was very amused to recognize 牛肉 as "cow meat" on a beef menu item at a Chinese restaurant). The kanji are getting tricksier and more complicated looking, though I do have to say that WK's method is pretty effective.

The only down side is it doesn't teach grammar, and I haven't found a really good thing for grammar. Duo sucks (it's better with languages that are similarer to English, really). Memrise is awesome but horrible at accessibility (I think I did a rant on this but teal deer; on iOS the kanji are tiny and there's no way to zoom; on the computer, all reviews are timed, in that you have 15 seconds to think of the answer and type it out; and they don't have a "kana but no kanji" course, just an everything version where I can't read the kanji, or a "no Japanese characters" version that hurts my brain, partly because I have to transliterate it into hiragana in my head anyway to match up with the rest of my knowledge, partly because they do things like "arigatō" where I'm used to "arigatou"; it's pronounced as a long closed o vowel, but written as ありがとう and とう is (to)(u).) There are textbooks, but I can't use physical textbooks.

I do have one app that does give basic grammar, so I'm doing that in parallel with learning the kanji. And hopefully some of it will stick, lol.

Meanwhile, my roommate is taking beginning Japanese this quarter and so we're doing super bad Japanese at each other. Like, she's started saying tadaimas' when she comes home, and I say okaeri back at her. Today she learned about telling time, which I can sort of do, in the sense of "..........uhhh, roku ji, uh, san... jyuu... go... fun. Uh, desu," (六時三十五分です = it's 6:35) Basically long pauses between each syllable, and I am of course better with translating written Japanese into English than trying to get English into Japanese.

#

Part three of updateyness will come ... sometime not right now.
ysobel: A grumpy puppet version of Angel (grumpy puppet)
I am less enchanted with memrise than I was initially.

Some issues:

a) On the iPad, some of the font is way too small, and selections tend to be underlined. This means that (for the Spanish course) i and í and l and t and ! and ¡ all look alike, and because of the underline g and q look alike, and (for the Japanese course) any kanji more complicated than the basic are impossible to "read" and I end up guessing from what's available. There is no option to enlarge. There's also ridiculous amounts of white space that could be used for ... oh I dunno, maybe larger font.

(yes the iPad has a zoom feature, but then I'm having to scroll all around the screen, or zoom and unzoom and zoom and unzoom.)

b) On the computer, there are two review methods; speed review, presumably timed, and classic review. Which is ... also times. Not in the sense of "you have an hour before the session times out", not (just) in the sense of "you get extra points for completing quickly", but in the sense of "15 seconds to answer each question *or you get marked wrong*". With a mouse and onscreen keyboard I can't always type quickly enough, much less if I have to think to recall the answer. I could live with "bonus for completing within 15 seconds", but even if you're typing it will mark you wrong once time is up. There is no non-timed recall through the computer.

c) Punctuation is erratically mandatory. One of the sentences it teaches is "cheers!" In Japanese, this is ikō ... except they have it as ikō! with the exclamation mark. Similarly in Spanish, "let's go!" is ¡vamos!" You will get marked wrong for just "ikō" or "vamos". Which is kind of wtf.

d) There are weird unexplained jumps. It made sense to learn "watashi" (I/me) and "no" (possessive particle) and put them together to get "watashi no" (my), then learn "namae" (name) and do "watashi no namae" (my name). And then they jump to "悲しんでいます / kanashindeimasu" (being sad) without having introduced sad, or talked about the difference between imasu and desu, aside from lumping them together as "politeness particles"

e) They don't reinforce kana spellings of kanji. So they teach that 幸せです / shiawasedesu means being happy, but they never review it as しあわせです, and I can memorize that the kanji 幸 corresponds with happy but then they do the audio "shiawasedesu" and I go "...baroo?" Especially since I can't see the kanji all that clearly.

There are other issues too, but those are the main ones. And I'm kind of disenchanted. I think I need to find a different source for learning the grammar, and stick with wanikani for kanji -- you have to pay after level 3, but I can probably wheedle a sub as a birthday present this year, and anyway I'm only on level 2 -- and ... I don't know. Something.
ysobel: (Default)
Current status of learning Japanese: progress is being made! I have hiragana down pretty well; I have katakana somewhat down, but it's a lot slower ("this letter is ... re. This letter is ... ma? No, su" levels of slow) and more error-prone. But I do have a few sentences, and I can recognize a handful of kanji -- 私 and 名前 and 何 and 元気, though with the last I can never remember which order the two go in.

I'm using two main apps (not counting the ones for kana and for kanji), and they've both been cracking me up.

#

Duolingo is mostly in "hiragana with occasional individual words" rather than sentences. Some words are sticking, mostly ones I was already familiar with (watashi, arigatō, sayōnara, and 1-10) or have something to hang them on (neko already had cat associations, inu has dog associations because shiba inu), but the rest just aren't sticking at all.

But, uh.

Occasionally it gives me super hard stuff, like manga, which translates to ... manga. And emoji translates as emoji. Who knew?!? ^_^

#

Memrise seems to be sticking better, and also has sentences and stuff. (私の名前は……です! Watashi no namae wa ... desu. "My name is..." Except I don't know how I'd transcribe isabeau. イザボ maybe?) And it's mostly sticking, except for some of the kanji. I'm totally hopeless at, uhhh, *looks it up* 調子 "condition", which I can recognize but not generate, and can not remember the pronunciation, chōshi, to save my life; 乾杯 "cheers" I can reliably remember the second bit with the up arrows, but the first I just randomly flail at the available kanji options until it says I'm right. And for the kanji, they don't give the option of using hiragana instead -- 私 (watashi, I/me) is always 私 and never わたし, just like marina is always winter and never Christmas.

But I digress.

So, okay: with languages like Japanese that have different lettering systems, they have "translation" of letters, e.g. "き" to "ki (hiragana)". (And I am very glad for the (hiragana) even though sometimes I do things like stare at "me (hiragana)" and wonder why "私" isn't one of the options...)

Now, each item has three (sometimes four) associated objects: English written version, Japanese written version, and Japanese audio (sometimes also video). And there are lots of options for how they drill you: a) translate from English to Japanese; b) translate from Japanese to English; c) given Japanese audio/video, select or transcribe the correct Japanese text; d) given Japanese audio/video, select the correct English translation; e) given Japanese text, select the correct Japanese audio; f) given English text, select the correct Japanese audio. Basically, all permutations of English/Japanese/audio.

In the context of actual words, like いいえ "no", this is all very useful. Ditto sentences.

In the context of the letters, option f is *really fucking hilarious* to me.

I mean. Drilling that や is "yo" is useful. Drilling that "yo" is よ, also useful. Drilling that "yo" sounds like "yo" ... um ... not so much.
ysobel: (Default)
So in addition to duolingo, I have fallen in love with memrise -- it's another language learning thing, similar but different. It has an adorable space/alien theme (idek but it's cute) and uses real people as speakers and generally does a good job as far as I can tell in the two days I've been fooling with it.

The only quibble I have is that when it is in free type mode (instead of picking the correct option or refrigerator magnet style things, it has you spelling), the keyboard it has you use is tiny. Limited keys, but smaller than the native iOS keyboard, and when I'm in bed with my glasses off and my cpap mask half blocking my vision, it's hard to tell the difference between q and o and a, or between i and ¡ and !, or whatever. And the line of keys is in random order, so I'm doing a lot of squinting.

But I like the other aspects of the interface, and I like that it starts with sentences like "what's up" or "hi" or "let's go" or "please", instead of the "the man eats an apple" that many of the duolingo courses start with. (Not welsh, though -- dw i draig!)

I dabbled briefly In Danish before deciding a) Danish pronunciation/spelling is wacky, and b) it was silly having memrise on one language and duo on another while also doing hiragana in a different app. So I decided that I'd do Japanese in all three. I have hiragana to the point where I can sound it out -- not really reading it yet, the way I can read Cyrillic, because it's very much "okay か is ka and ん is n and じ is shi... no, ji.., so ... oh, kanji", but at least I know the letters. I am a little :/ at the prospect of katakana also (whyyyy have two syllabaries) and more so at kanji, but ... eh. So far duo and mem are both just using/teaching in hiragana.

(The other app I'm using is "Learn Japanese!!" The first lesson is free, but you gave to pay for the rest -- $2 for the hiragana pack, $8 for the whole thing which includes katakana and some basic lessons, which isn't bad; same company has a kanji app, presumably similar model. I know I could have stuck with free tools, but this one is good about teaching you how to write, which is nice reinforcement rather than just staring at the characters.)

...I'm trying to convince myself that I shouldn't also do the Spanish unit on memrise. I'm not sure how successful I'll be in that regard.

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masquerading as a man with a reason

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