ysobel: Phantom of the Opera; text: ...I gave you my music (phantom)


So POTO on Broadway is closing, and I have ~feelings~, because Phantom was ... not my first obsession (that would probably be My Little Pony), not even really my first fandom (Star Trek), but it was something I listened to on repeat* and fundamental to my adolescence and college and entire fandom experience.

(* to the point that I literally wore out a cassette tape version, while I was away from home at a summer camp (for number theory). The minor meltdown I had makes more sense through the lens of probably-autistic. Luckily I was able to acquire a copy fairly quickly.)

I spent most of teenagerhood convinced for some reason that I was the only weirdo who liked Phantom, so when I showed up to my college dorm and there was another person down the hall a) in a wheelchair b) with a service dog c) whose dorm room was already plastered with POTO decorations ... well, she and I kind of became bffs. And we may have seen the show a lot.

(I mean, c'mon: we were like half an hour away from San Francisco, which had a standing (not touring) production, and the theater had no elevator (and thus no accessibility for the cheap seats) so wheelchair users got bac-of-orchestra seats for nosebleed-terrace prices. How could we NOT go a bunch?)

She/we also organized online fandom things, including a mailing list; o the people I met through POTO, several got me into Buffy (both show and fandom) and Stars War (ditto, especially prequel), and those two led to way more fandom shows and communities. (I may have found myself there anyway, through different paths, but it wouldn't be the same.)

POTO fandom also introduced me to the concept of recordings in other languages. For years now my favorite recording is German (my language skills are rusty but I follow along well enough and know the story anyway) and second favorite is Japanese (language skills abysmal but the voice qualities are excellent.)

At one point I was working on a project to compare translations of Music of the Night. For each language, have a line by line analysis of the text, the literal translation, and the English counterpart. (It was inherently English-centric, though I considered trying to find someone for each language who could do a literal translation the other way.) I never even got finished with the German version, which at the time I was fluent enough to do myself. (I wish I'd considered translation as a major, or at least focus, because I was interested but didn't realize it was studyable.)

I've been listening to (the German) POTO for the last few days, and one thing I keep coming back to is translation. Sometimes it's just minor word choice, sometimes it's appreciating that the rhyming banter in Notes had the same tight pattern (and equal frustration that the equivalent care wasn't taken with the wrote/written error*), and sometimes just fascination with how the meaning changes.

* English version: "Isn't this the letter you wrote?" / "And what is it, that we're meant to have wrote? (Pause) ...written." Which works because "wrote" is the direct rhyme but "written" is grammatically correct. But the German recording has "Schrieben Sie an mich diesen Brief?" / "Nun verraten Sie was steht in dem (Bruf) -- Brief" which doesn't work because... I'm not sure if it's even a word, and it isn't required by the rhyme and aaaahhhh why.

...anyway. The biggest thing is the Phantom's last linse, which

[Shit, I have a cat on my lap, lol. Maybe I'll finish this tomorrow instead. ]

...which in English is "you alone could make my song take flight / it's over now, the music of the night", which calls textually back to the end of Music of the Night (you alone can &c, help me make the music of the night) but is also very ... it never quite made complete sense why Christine was the only person in the world with a good enough voice. (I know, I know, love/obsession on his part plus gullibility on hers plus he's now got murderous mobs after him, so it's harder to start over, but anyway that's not the point.) German version it's "Du allein hat mich von mir befreit, nun endet die Musik der Dunkelheit" -- that is, "you alone have freed me from myself" (same last line). Doesn't call back, does rhyme, and also just feels ... better somehow? More poetic? I just *like* it better.

Anyway I've been working on this entry for three days so I'm gonna shut up now...
ysobel: (Default)
I really wish I could just ... install languages into my brain.

I was talking to an aide today about stuff relating to when I was in undergrad, and mentioned the thing where I used to be near-fluent in German but then didn't practice it enough and basically have nothing left but residual pronunciation and a few random words and phrases. Also my last German class was in the 90s anyway so I have no internet terms.

I've tried resurrecting it with casual Duolingo use, but these days I can't remember new stuff easily, especially gender and cases. I'm managing Spanish ok, with two genders and four words for "the" (gender x plurality), but German has three genders (plus plural, though IIRC plural isn't gendered, so it's sort of a fourth gender) and at least four cases (nom gen dat acc) and therefore a fuckton of words for "the" (five unique ones, der die das den dem, but der is masc nom and also fem dat/gen, and den is masc acc and also plural dat) and while I can chant "der die das die, den die das die, dem der dem den, des der des der" all I want, I can't make it stick, and even more I can't make it stuck in practice because I can't remember the gender of nouns to save my life. And Duo treats all errors the same -- ich lese eine Buch [should be ein] is counted as wrong as ich lese ein Apfel -- which isn't fair because I'm pretty sure people would understand what I'm saying with the first one even if it sounds wrong!

But I miss German. And my Spanish is ... okay at understanding written, but weak at generating. Especially if I'm put on the spot; my mind goes blank. And I can't understand fast spoken. And I'm crap at tenses.

Plus I'm goofing off with both Yiddish and Ukrainian on duo, but at some point it will get too hard and I'll stop. And I used to do Japanese, at least able to read hirigana and was working on learning the kanji, but that's gone poof, and I didn't even get to the grammar. And I'd love to be able to learn Korean, but ... at least I had some familiarity with Yiddish alphabet (because Jewish stuff) and Cyrillic (because of the Russian I took in college). I don't need yet another completely different alphabet system.

I haven't done any serious language study in a while, either. One lesson per day on Duolingo, sure. But learning languages takes repetition, all the more so because I can't learn by (hand) writing any more. So I could maybe get my German back if a) I didn't let myself get distracted with other languages, b) I typed stuff up and made neat charts and whatnot, c) I wrote down Every Fucking Vocab Word with its greenery and referred back until it stuck, and ... basically treated it as A Job.

But I'm too lazy and too tired and too braindead for all that.

Sigh.
ysobel: (learning german)
Tried poking at French on duolingo ... and then realized it would mess up any Spanish attempts (or the Spanish attempts would much up French) because they look similar and sound so different, and I had a moment of "je suis, tu eres, il/elle/es est" (bad jumble of french and Spanish with a soupçon of German). So ... for now I go back to German for Duolingo purposes, and refresh Spanish grammar/vocab through other sites. (I am currently tempted by https://www.rocketlanguages.com/ which is paid, but I will probably get over that temptation and just stick to free resources.)

I did realize why I suddenly had urges to go do other languages, Greek or French or whatnot, rather than continuing with German. It's because the words aren't sticking right now. It's not difficult vocabulary -- z.b. Ort, Kneipe, Bezirk, Grundstück, Umgebung, Unterkünfte -- but I can't remember the words or their meanings at all. Each time it's like I'm seeing the word for the first time, and by the time it comes up again I've dropped it again.

Which is, um. Frustrating. And makes me want to avoid it. And to some extent repetition is the key to learning things like this, but it's hard to repeat things you can't hold on to.

I kind of wish I could just download language knowledge into my brain.
ysobel: (learning german)
So I went to the Duo Facebook page to see if there was information about the app changes (health meter and "gema")

There wasn't

...but a) there was an announcement about Japanese coming to Duo, and b) i sort of ended up starting the Greek course. No real reason (especially since it's modern Greek rather than ancient) but it's not like welsh had a purpose, lol. I do judge courses based on the early lessons (eg i want to learn danish but the first lesson makes me despair -- "drengen" sounds like drying but smushed into one syllable, "kvinden" sounds like kving, and it doesn't make *sense*) but Greek is starting with the alphabet. Sensible.

So far I can say such useful things as το γράμμα δέλτα (to gramma delta / the letter d), woo. Knowing Cyrillic helps, because I'm already used to ρ being r and π being p; otoh I suspect knowing German will make me inclined to read β as ss rather than b.

...I'm not sure why I'm switching. I'm not at the end of the German course. I'm not even up to where I was before -- I did the course up to like 10 units from the end, and then wandered off to welsh, and then had forgotten some of the German so I went back to re-do each unit that had unfamiliar words, and I'm only up to the middle of the fifth section, 57 units behind the farthest unlocked one. And it would make sense to stay with German because it's familiar -- I used to be fluent back in high school, so right now it's a weird mix of translation and knowing; there are some words that i have to think about and some words that are just sort of there, I have to look up tatsächlich but selbstverständlich is just, well, self-evident, no pun intended.

Semi unrelatedly, I'm still frustrated at the differences between the website and the app -- how much information isn't available through the app. Things like https://www.duolingo.com/words or like the blurb for a lesson about how articles work or conjugations or whatever. I find the app easier to use, but then I miss stuff. Grarh.
ysobel: (learning german)
This has been bugging me for a while:

"Das Objekt, aufgefunden in den Keller gewurden der Oper, funktioniert noch"

Why is gewurden smack in the middle of den Keller der Oper? (It feels wrong to me -- why isn't gewurden last?

...or oh oh oh is gewurden part of the noun phrase? I was thinking it was part of the verb phrase (aufgefunden gewurden) but if it's the noun phrase -- is that, like, "the cellar that used to be (but isn't any more) part of the opera house ?

Hilfe bitte! (Is there a German equivalent of halp? Halfe? Lol)
ysobel: (learning german)
Today's duolingo lesson included Flughafen. *is easily amused*

Duo grr

Jun. 3rd, 2015 10:31 pm
ysobel: (learning german)
Duolingo is driving me fucking crazy tonight.

First off, a thing that is not really entirely their fault: I use the app because typing on the iPad is tons easier for me right now than typing on the computer -- but with the keyboard split (which is how I can use it) it is very easy to accidentally hit the "done" bar across the bottom of the screen.

Second, a thing which is: the iPad app has absolutely no way of submitting corrections or complaints, or flag things as wrong.

And it's being downright fucking stupid tonight.

Example: "Hast du eigene Kinder?" Freeform translate to English. It is the first time I have seen the word eigene, and my instinct -- which turns out to be correct, dammit -- is to translate this as "do you have any kids", but as my instinct is rusty as hell, I tap the word to see what duo says. Provided translations: own, separate, peculiarly. So I hesitantly type in "do you have separate kids", which is wrong, but dammit.

Example: "ich bezahle den technischen Bücher". Again freeform translate. I brainfart and translate bezahle as buy, and that gets marked wrong, which is fair, but the provided and therefore preferred translation is "I am paying the technical books", which is so augh. Not paying for, mind you; apparently the hooks themselves are extortionists or blackmailers or something.

Between that sort of thing (which I can't fucking report without going through the website) and the misclicks, it took me twice as long as usual to get through the lesson. Sigh.

(185 day streak, though. That's something.)

Um.

Apr. 23rd, 2015 09:17 pm
ysobel: (learning german)
So I am refreshing my German using Duolingo -- 146 day streak woo -- and one of the words today was Ernst, meaning seriousness. One of the sentences I encountered three times with this word; the first time was the “refrigerator magnet” sort of thing where you have a list of words that you pick out the correctly translated sentence from.

The German sentence was “Im Ernst” -- and there is no punctuation in Duo but the vocal inflection was as a question. Literally, this translates to “in the seriousness”

The only possible English translation from the provided words, and apparently the default translation for that sentence, is “No kidding”.

Seriously, Duo? Seriously?
ysobel: (learning german)
(Still, always, want to type that as Duolinguo. Gah.)

So I am at the point with Spanish where I have gone through all of the Duo lessons and am mainly doing "practice weak skills" over and over again. Which is not unwarranted -- there is a lot I'm shaky on still, even of what duo gives me, and I am nowhere near ready for real world applications.

But I sort of want to use Duo to brush up on my German. And I can't decide how to do it.

Option one is to do both German and Spanish, one right after the other. Which is easy enough to get in the habit of (the biggest hurdle is remembering to do it; two lessons instead of one is not a problem) but seems like it would be the most confusing to my brain.

Option two is to alternate days. Spanish one day, German the next, etc. Less immediate switching between languages, but still involves some.

Option three is to alternate weekends/weekdays (so do one Monday-Friday and the other Sat-Sun). Has the advantage of making it easy to remember which I'm supposed to be doing on a given day.

Option four is to alternate weeks.

Option five is to just use duo for German and find a more immersive source for keeping Spanish practice.

...I can't decide. Halp?

Poll #16370 Decide for me
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 10


Which option should I do?

View Answers

Both every day
0 (0.0%)

Alternate days
1 (11.1%)

Weekday/weekend split
2 (22.2%)

Alternate weeks
0 (0.0%)

German only, find something else for Spanish
6 (66.7%)

Spanish only until you're fluent, you slacker
0 (0.0%)

Ticky?

View Answers

Ticky!
5 (55.6%)

Tea!
2 (22.2%)

Tea and ticky
5 (55.6%)

Ticky needs to go to sleep
5 (55.6%)

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masquerading as a man with a reason

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